Wasted Hours

exitpursuedbyasloth:

No. To literally every last thing you said. I care not for your bullshit rape culture opinions, please go peddle them elsewhere.

And do you believe Sansa when she says she’s loyal to Joffrey, that she loves him, that her family is traitors and got what they had coming to them? Do you not understand what weapons Sansa uses to survive?

IT IS NOT CONSENT IF THE GIRL IS TOO AFRAID TO SAY NO. A rape victim is not obligated to to physically fight her attacker, and if she doesn’t that doesn’t make it not rape. Don’t try to school people on the definition of rape when you clearly have no fucking idea.

Let me put it to you this way. There is a man who, by all laws of society, owns you. He can do whatever he wants. His family has killed so many members of yours. You’ve been beaten on a regular basis for months by other members of his household. This man is looking at you in anger, and you know he is fully capable of harming you (and there is nothing you can do about it). Oh, he says he’s nice and capable of kindness, but then again, so did his family members who beat you and killed the rest of your family. He orders you to get undressed and get on the bed, because he’s going to fuck you. You don’t want to have sex with him. Ever. But do you scream, hit and kick him, fight him? All of which would be ultimately pointless? Or do you just try to get it over with, and hopefully not get beaten again, and survive another day so that you might one day escape? And does that somehow magically make what’s happening to you not rape? Was Cersei not actually raped by Robert all those times when he took his husbandly rights? Are all the girls and boys who just laid there and tried to get it over with while they were getting raped NOT ACTUALLY RAPED? Maybe you should tell them so. I’m sure they would be so relieved.

I believe there is a big difference between remaining silent and giving consent. If someone doesn’t give consent, it counts as rape. For example, if the person is unconscious and cannot voice their dissent, it’s still rape. However, if a person vocally assents to sex, it can’t be considered rape. Sansa was not afraid to say no, she chose to say yes, to give her consent. She didn’t choose to get married, and she most likely didn’t have a choice over whether or not that marriage would be consummated, but she had a choice over whether to consent or not and she did. Her decision, her responsibility.

Saying that you lied when you consented wouldn’t fly in court. The whole purpose of consent is to communicate to the other person that you are, in fact, willing and that he isn’t committing rape. He can’t be responsible for rape if Sansa communicated that she was willing. You have to look at the situation objectively (and not just from Sansa’s perspective) if you wan’t to judge a crime.

Sansa was never forced to consent. She chose to consent. If she hadn’t consented, and Tyrion had sex with her, he would have then been raping her. She was forced into the marriage, yes, but not into agreeing to have sex. Consent is always the decision of the woman; whether by coercion or not, it is her choice to make and therefore her responsibility. People make choices for a reason, and Sansa believing it was her duty is her reason for making that choice. 

Again, she had no choice over whether the consummation would happen, but she had a choice over whether or not to consent. And she chose to.

(Source: girlsarewolves)

tigerofsummer:

What is this even you’re going on a tangent. The point of your argument was that it would not have been rape if Tyrion had sex with Sansa, even though she obviously doesn’t want to have sex with him. There is no go-around for this. Sansa did not decide to have sex with Tyrion, she realized there was no point in fighting so just gave up. THAT IS STILL RAPE.

She obviously doesn’t want to? She took her own clothes off and laid herself down on the bed and never made a move to run or fight. I know she’s scared to have sex for the first time and I know she doesn’t want to be Tyrion’s wife and I know she isn’t attracted to him, but everything she does indicate that she is willing to have sex with him.

“There was no point in fighting so she just gave up…that is still rape.” Nobody would ever buy that. She. Said. Yes. He asked. It’s really hard to accuse someone of rape if they were never told that sex wasn’t wanted. I’m sure if it happened and someone accused Tyrion of rape, he would have been dumbfounded. (And no, not because in those times, he owned her.)

People have sex all the time when they don’t want to. But if they agree without being threatened, as she did, it’s not rape. 

tigerofsummer:

plutozier:

plutozier:

All Girls Are Wolves: plutozier: [Exit, Pursued By A Sloth]: girlsarewolves: cottonmouths…

plutozier:

[Exit, Pursued By A Sloth]: girlsarewolves: cottonmouths replied to your post:…

girlsarewolves:

cottonmouths replied to your post: …

Do you think she was scared for her life? Or do you think that maybe she accepted the position as Tyrion’s wife, one that she thought she would fill for the rest of her life? In this chapter and many after, she thinks of Tyrion and tries to convince herself to like him, but has nothing ever to say about getting over her fear of him or anything like that. 

I don’t think you give her enough credit. I think she was being brave, to decide to do her duty and not try to fight her way out. 

Sex is a duty now?

duty

1.something that one is expected or required to do by moralor legal obligation.

2.the binding or obligatory force of something that is morallyor legally right; moral or legal obligation.

3.an action or task required by a person’s position oroccupation; function: the duties of a clergyman.

4.the respectful and obedient conduct due a parent, superior,elder, etc.

5.an act or expression of respect.

Definition number three.

Sansa is Tyrion’s wife, and their marriage must be consummated. 

Especially in those times, her duty is to do anything her husband tells her to, but you all think that the mindset of the time is irrelevant so you can ignore this if you wish.

tigerofsummer:

plutozier:

plutozier:

[Exit, Pursued By A Sloth]: girlsarewolves: cottonmouths replied to your post:…

girlsarewolves:

cottonmouths replied to your post: downtheroadandupthehill replied to your post:…

I’m reading the books atm. is there going to be any naked scene with sansa?? :/

I’m…

It was consensual. She gets undressed and laying in bed (body language says “okay”), by not fighting or saying “no” (again), and she even says she agrees:

“Shall we get on with this, my lady? If it please you?”

“It will please me to please my lord husband.”

    A lot of girls are scared the first time they have sex, but that doesn’t mean they don’t consent. People even have sex when they’re “not in the mood”, and it’s not rape. People think rape is just when the person doesn’t want to do it. Like the first definition said, it becomes rape when there is a vocal (or behavioral) dissent or if there is no vocal (behavioral) agreement. Body language is not enough to classify it as rape unless, of course, he/she is fighting and running away from the other person.

   The people of those times would not have called it rape if Tyrion had consummated his marriage with Sansa. Not even her own mother would have. 

omg, You have totally missed the point of Sansa’s character if you judge her telling Tyrion “It would please me to please my lord husband” as actual, real, consent instead of her being forced to comply with what her captors wish to do with her for the sake of her life. She is not going to tell a Lannister no, and even then! Guess what she says later! 

“And what if I never want to?” in regards to having sex with Tyrion. Do you know what that means? That means she doesn’t want to have sex with Tyrion, she doesn’t want to give false ‘consent’ when her life is on the line, not wanting to have sex and having someone pressure you, or have your circumstances pressure you, into giving some false consent is going to be rape.

Also, who the fuck cares about the people of those times? That is not a legit argument my friend I’m sorry. The people of those times didn’t give a shit about a woman’s consent.

Thank you, but I’m aware that it doesn’t actually please her to please Tyrion.

Really, you guys victimize her more than anyone else. She makes the conscious choice to do what she must to preserve herself. She knows very well that her life wouldn’t have been threatened had she said “no” to Tyrion. (I feel like you’re all going to disagree so I’ll explain. They can’t kill her before the marriage is consummated because then the Lannisters forfeit the Stark lands.) That’s not the reason she stays quiet. She sees her situation and knows that she’s Tyrion’s wife now, and that she must do her duty. She knows that that means sex and she doesn’t try to fight her fate.

Sansa continues to do this sort of thing when she pretends to be Petyr’s daughter. Her life isn’t in danger, but she’s safer overall to play the part given to her.

plutozier:

All Girls Are Wolves: plutozier: [Exit, Pursued By A Sloth]: girlsarewolves: cottonmouths…

plutozier:

[Exit, Pursued By A Sloth]: girlsarewolves: cottonmouths replied to your post:…

girlsarewolves:

cottonmouths replied to your post: …

Do you think she was scared for her life? Or do you think that maybe she accepted the position as Tyrion’s wife, one that she thought she would fill for the rest of her life? In this chapter and many after, she thinks of Tyrion and tries to convince herself to like him, but has nothing ever to say about getting over her fear of him or anything like that. 

I don’t think you give her enough credit. I think she was being brave, to decide to do her duty and not try to fight her way out. 

plutozier:

[Exit, Pursued By A Sloth]: girlsarewolves: cottonmouths replied to your post:…

girlsarewolves:

cottonmouths replied to your post: downtheroadandupthehill replied to your post:…

I’m reading the books atm. is there going to be any naked scene with sansa?? :/

I’m…

It was consensual. She gets undressed and laying in bed (body language says “okay”), by not fighting or saying “no” (again), and she even says she agrees:

“Shall we get on with this, my lady? If it please you?”

“It will please me to please my lord husband.”

    A lot of girls are scared the first time they have sex, but that doesn’t mean they don’t consent. People even have sex when they’re “not in the mood”, and it’s not rape. People think rape is just when the person doesn’t want to do it. Like the first definition said, it becomes rape when there is a vocal (or behavioral) dissent or if there is no vocal (behavioral) agreement. Body language is not enough to classify it as rape unless, of course, he/she is fighting and running away from the other person.

   The people of those times would not have called it rape if Tyrion had consummated his marriage with Sansa. Not even her own mother would have. 

girlsarewolves:

cottonmouths replied to your post: downtheroadandupthehill replied to your post:…

I’m reading the books atm. is there going to be any naked scene with sansa?? :/

I’m trying to remember if she’s naked on her wedding night. I can’t at them moment - but then she also…

Yikes.
I don’t think Tyrion was so horrible as all that. Yes, she’s scared. And yes, he’s pissed, pissed that he has to do this because his father commanded it. He touched her once, and then stopped. He stopped it all, against the order of his father and his “duty” as a husband.
Sansa was young but she was flowered, physically mature, and this situation was no rare thing in those times.
It wouldn’t have been rape because she consents even though she’s scared and doesn’t want to do it.
I do think Tyrion was noble. He was the only Lannister who was ever kind to her or showed her mercy. He also put himself on the line majorly by not consummating their marriage. No other man would have done that.
Of course, you wouldn’t call Margaery evil for trying to force Renly into sex, because she’s a girl and so it isn’t so bad.